tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post3483162785548221490..comments2023-06-07T09:12:00.141-06:00Comments on Mountains and Water: Against the Grain, or Why I Climb at FlagstaffPeter Bealhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15576690594320743452noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-50421415965053861932011-12-09T12:58:11.503-07:002011-12-09T12:58:11.503-07:00As a former Colorado climber (250+ days a year for...As a former Colorado climber (250+ days a year for over a decade while working at least 30+ hours a week), I was constantly perplexed by how many people living along one of the best regions for rock climbing in the whole world traveled so much, especially people who lived in Boulder, just a few minutes from Eldorado, Boulder Canyon and short slog to Flagstaff Mountain or the Flatirons. Reading so many articles about Colorado based climbers traveling far and often to climb makes me wonder why they even live there. And what about the larger environmental impact of all that travel? <br /><br />There was an article in Outside magazine praising David de Rothschild as an environmental messiah while creating a carbon footprint from his global travels "saving the world" that I can assure you he would discourage among those of us not members from a wealthy and powerful banking oligarchy from creating. That wouldn't be sustainable, you know.Marc Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15526121114466617234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-91016994283399749422011-11-30T12:28:17.452-07:002011-11-30T12:28:17.452-07:00Thanks for such an insightful post. There's a ...Thanks for such an insightful post. There's a lot to be said for the backyard choss, how very "american" to not be satisfied with what we have close to home, and drive for hours on end to get to the "better" stuff. I was also thinking recently about how the top pros these days are flying all over the world, and how they have little connection to "real" climbers. Folks who are balancing life, work, play, jobs, kids, a mortgage, and still manage to pull off high level sends. The dirtbag lifestyle isn't alive in the pros, how many of them are actually sleeping in the dirt? But the dirtbags are still out there, at least our version of it. Folks who have made sacrifices in life to live a balance, to climb four days a week outside, to give back to the community. Thanks again for a great post!splitter chosshttp://www.splitterchoss.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-87119535538652770062011-11-25T19:00:36.198-07:002011-11-25T19:00:36.198-07:00BTW, a ~260,000 per annum income enters one into t...BTW, a ~260,000 per annum income enters one into the top 1% earner bracket (I have no idea of what the top 1% asset owner classification is....).<br /><br />which climbers qualify?<br /><br />I've heard second-hand info about a few top-tier climbers who are trustafarians, but not most....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-16811661494389786182011-11-25T18:55:21.419-07:002011-11-25T18:55:21.419-07:00Today, the best climbers are instead some of the r...<i><b>Today, the best climbers are instead some of the richest.</b></i><br /><br />Is this really true? Seriously? <br /><br />I have a really hard time believing in the veracity of this seemingly silly generalization....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-53300698326802328552011-11-24T21:50:06.942-07:002011-11-24T21:50:06.942-07:00What a crock pot post, top 1%, get out of you limi...What a crock pot post, top 1%, get out of you limited view of the world and see what the top 1% really are. Even the wealthiest of Globe trodden climbers don't come anywhere near that tier of society.<br /><br />http://class5photos.blogspot.com/<br /><br />You climb on Flagstaff mountain because it's convenient to where you live and work. All of us find our local crag to be wonderful and special.Arizona Teacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09060178859139721977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-67226462050255431332011-11-24T06:00:52.799-07:002011-11-24T06:00:52.799-07:00Impacts on Wilderness - On a practical level, I wo...Impacts on Wilderness - On a practical level, I wonder what sorts of ethics you’ve seen expressed by the bouldering communities you know best? For example, has the ‘Leave No Trace’ ethic been widely adopted? Ie, What sorts of practices are promoted for human waste management? Cat holes? Carry out? Other? Esp. in high alpine. Is construction of a pit privy the norm once a wilderness area gets above a certain level of visitation by climbers? I ask in part because of what colleagues have told me about areas along the Ice Fields Parkway in Banff National Park. Areas that have become popular destinations for ice-climbing (often catalized by blogs) have frankly become covered in shit – something that’s esp. evident after spring melt. In some cases Parks Canada was able to install porta-potties to serve the climbing community. But, if authorities like Parks Canada are NOT on site to service our ‘need to go’, then what are we to do….?Kent A Priorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624126001461991572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-32214248019404132302011-11-23T13:34:23.841-07:002011-11-23T13:34:23.841-07:00Nice post. I do wonder what all these pro climber...Nice post. I do wonder what all these pro climbers will do when they hit their forties and fifties (and beyond); they have no marketable skills and job experience, and will have to settle for minimum wage jobs at best. Unlike mainstream sports where pro athletes make enough to retire during their prime years, the pro climbers will be unable to buy a home, raise a family or retire for that matter. Seems like a big sacrifice given the pro climbers these days don’t climb much harder than many of the weekend warriors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-38871865128565743642011-11-23T11:14:09.616-07:002011-11-23T11:14:09.616-07:00I'm not sure that the course of rock climbing ...I'm not sure that the course of rock climbing is headed in the wrong direction at all. Yes there are a handful of big names wearing big names on their backs, just as with any non main stream sport that gets popularized (ie. snowboarding). But you are out there a lot Pete, and tell me if there, is a marked difference in the community actually climbing regularly. I grew up trad climbing in Eldo, and despite shinier racks, and brighter down jackets, the overall feel and experience in the canyon is the same. The experience of climbing in an extraordinarily beautiful place like Flag or Eldo is available for many people of many different backrounds and lifestyles that dont detract but add to the experience climbing there. <br /> Even those jet setting around the world are still just climbers when the camera is off. Look a Alex Honnold. One of the highest profile climbers right now, lives in a van and eats mac n cheese and tuna every night. <br /> It is the web sites and blogs that give a commercial feel to something that is inherintly a lonely, dirty, scary, humbling experience. <br /> This blog is such a nice counterpoint and thoughtful sharing of your experience.Rambonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-27715886649528357062011-11-23T09:08:33.871-07:002011-11-23T09:08:33.871-07:00A response to / different perspective on this line...A response to / different perspective on this line of thinking: "If you have time to go off and climb rocks all over the world and [do] not have to work all the time to support this habit, you are not a dirtbag. You are the 1% or damn close to it."<br /><br />I don't know where the cutoff for the 1% is, but there are plenty of people who do exactly what you describe above but have just enough money to buy their plane tickets or gas, some food, and a block of chalk every now an again. I meet them all over the world: no insurance, a meager savings account, a little unsteady income from time to time, plus, often, a hand from mom and dad, too. But they are almost never well to do. Wealthy people, the vast majority of the time, are wealthy due to their (time-consuming) employment. There aren't really many millionaire trustafarians out there climbing, though it's common to joke that the crags are full of them. The ones you meet stand out because they're the envy of the campfire, but most people on the road, climbing for a year at a time, are running up credit card debt and living at a very basic level.<br /><br />Likewise, none of the profesional climbers I know (and, via various climbing industry jobs, I have known quite a few) are in the 1%. Most of them, even those we think of as Living Legends and who have appeared in print and TV ads for big corporations, are always hustling to make ends meet through slideshow tours, books and videos authored, and fickle sponsorships. There are a few who stack papers, in the parlance of our times, but they are certainly the exception rather than the rule.<br /><br />To sum it up, from what I have seen, you can either have time to climb, or you can have stability and cashflow, but rarely both (those few lucky folks who do have both tend to keep their situation under wraps, to avoid being hit up for beer and cash by their dirtbag friends). Money is time, and time money, this is all ye know on earth and all ye need know.jriggedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01699626668535691274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-20209052093231791742011-11-22T20:10:57.120-07:002011-11-22T20:10:57.120-07:00Great post Peter. Flagstaff is such a great place ...Great post Peter. Flagstaff is such a great place to have in the backyard. And if people cant enjoy it for the obvious, beautiful surroundings and great rock, let them all drive to Joe's Valley or Bishop. It will remain nice and quiet for the working stiffs.Linden's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11987192642163770289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-83222563087623606892011-11-22T20:04:13.507-07:002011-11-22T20:04:13.507-07:00I have been thinking a lot about where climbing is...I have been thinking a lot about where climbing is heading too, but from a slightly different perspective. What concerns me is that climbing is increasingly dissociated from appreciation of being outside and adventure. 20+ years ago, a climber was a climber and there was a sense of adventure regardless of what sorts of climbing one did. These days it seems that climbing outside is increasingly like climbing indoors. It is not really surprising given the number of people who start climbing in the gym and slowly start climbing outside. The end result is that in many areas it is hard to have the same kind of wild and adventurous experience that we used to have. As a corollary, it seems that many of the gym raised climbers do not value their role as stewards of the environment in which the climb. I think I am glad I started climbing when I did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-67498385069440096302011-11-22T19:41:21.088-07:002011-11-22T19:41:21.088-07:00As a guy that's looking to pull in six figures...As a guy that's looking to pull in six figures for the first time in his life after 15 years of putting in really hard work, I gotta say I don't feel as though I'm anywhere close to the 1%. Granted, my income comes via a skill I've cultivated since a young age, I can't really say I would sleight any climber for bumping a six figure income because they've cultivated a skill since a young age and managed to make a career of it. <br /><br />I certainly can't because I didn't get into climbing until after I had established my career and income. In my brief time climbing the fact I've got a j-o-b with a flexible schedule has allowed me to climb a lot more than most of my friends.<br /><br />But in my climbing adventures, I've met some true dirtbags that are scraping by. They're not climbing 5.15, but they love climbing enough to eat peanut butter sandwiches and tuna every night for months. I met them on my first trip to Hueco. They even turned down my offer to buy them dinner with my big fat bonus check.<br /><br />They still exist. Minimal income, maximum psyche. And I wish I could do it, but I realize I'm too old (too old at 31) and far too comfortable in my career to throw everything out the window. And I'll never climb at a level that I could pull income to maintain a similar quality of life that I have now. <br /><br />But you're right. No one seems to be addressing the fact that climbing is becoming commercial and we're seeing people with no idea of where climbing has come from, engaging in the sport. <br /><br />It has to be addressed proactively, not reactively like we're seeing. There has to be some way to expose new climbers to this kind information and get them educated.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07918646815028229774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-19743710650622820392011-11-22T19:16:31.815-07:002011-11-22T19:16:31.815-07:00Great post!
"I like being contrary, I thin...Great post! <br /><br />"I like being contrary, I think. I like finding value in things that the mainstream ignores..."<br /><br />I can definitely relate to the feeling. There is so much that the mainstream ignores that is much more interesting than what it pays attention to.Lloyd Familyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07932296219601448464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4790818505250918302.post-72740596854229682022011-11-22T18:38:03.090-07:002011-11-22T18:38:03.090-07:00Please, for my sake, keep talking about it. That ...Please, for my sake, keep talking about it. That commercial was HI-larious! Definitely a topic that needs to be addressed, especially the environmental impacts.Micah Bryan Humphreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09051649321466387431noreply@blogger.com